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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I'm normally independent and find my answers through intense research. But, I'm coming up dry in some area's. So any help would be great!

My friend picked this thing up stored away for years due to it would not start. Turns over great, just no spark as I was going through it. He did a compression check and the think was great! So felt it's worth the fix..for the spark.

This is where I come in. My friend hates wires but luvs carbs and gas...lol. So...here I am. I kinda worked backwards, my first look was the switch at the left handlebar...it was busted, I took both wires and ran them through the wrap and tied them off... of course separate from each other, so that is not the cause for no spark. I then looked at the CDI box and the Coil. the CDI box was cracked and when I moved it off the screws little water dripped out the box.(that didn't look good to me and what's strange is this thing has been in storage for a long time.) Anyways my thought came to replace the CDI box and the coil(it was rusted and the orange wire was eaten by a mouse and the spark plug wire seen better days.

Yes, I know, I've seen many posts mentioning the stator-alt-flywheel area is most likely the problem area. But I figured with the condition-looks of the coil and CDI box..and they not that expensive, at least in my mind. Of course I had to buy aftermarket new due to no OEM is being sold new. I got the 7 wire CDI, and the coil was basic with the orange wire and the spark wire. The seller of the CDI box was cool...he explained and provided a diagram with the CDI box. His wires are different colors than the factory wires on the ATV.

It's kinda simple. the alone black wire is ground, the orange alone wire is to the coil. the two wire goes to the two wire on the ATV and that's for the shut off deal. But then comes the 3 wires. the cool diagram shows what wires are for what on the aftermarket CDI...the full black is ground.(goes to the full black from ATV harness) but then the other two, one is for the "pulse"(spark in my mind) and the other is for the ALT(charging)...that's awesome but the issue is the aftermarket wires are totally different in color and stripes.

My brain is telling me to hook the battery back up, turn the starter over...and find the ALT wire by getting a reading that would help charge the bat? and if I tried what ever one is the "pulse" I'd get a reading one time every revolution..???

Any thoughts? What would be the right way to check the wires so that I hook them to the correct wires on the Aftermarket CDI.??

I was looking for a color(wire) diagram online to find what one was pulse and what one was alt... but so far no dice. Cuz I know what ones do what on the aftermarket CDI box...just not sure what factory wires from the stator do what...

Thanks in advance for anyone's time here reading and helping me through this...my reward will be seeing my friends kid with joy ridin' his machine.
 

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The cdi gets charged up, by either twelve volts from the battery, or from the stator(depends on the make and model), then another small coil sends the "pulse", from down in the stator/alt, which tells the cdi to discharge to the coil.

The two wires you tied off.. are you sure they aren't meant to be connected ? Some kill/ignition switches disconnect wires, and others connect them in order for the engine to run.

You should download a manual and it will explain how the switches work, and which wire is which, and it will explain how to test all the various components. If all the components test ok, then it's likely to be a broken wire somewhere.
In the test procedures it tells how to check components at the component, but after you have doe that test, it's always a good idea to repeat the test at the far end of the wires the component connects to. So for instance, the test for the stator/alt is a resistance test with an ohm meter done down at the engine connector, but if the startor checks ok, ie it has continuity, then you need to reconnect it to the wiring, and go to the cdi unit and do the same continuity test right back through the wiring to the stator/alt. If the wiring is good, the continuity readings will be the same as they were down at the engine connector.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
The cdi gets charged up, by either twelve volts from the battery, or from the stator(depends on the make and model), then another small coil sends the "pulse", from down in the stator/alt, which tells the cdi to discharge to the coil.

The two wires you tied off.. are you sure they aren't meant to be connected ? Some kill/ignition switches disconnect wires, and others connect them in order for the engine to run.

You should download a manual and it will explain how the switches work, and which wire is which, and it will explain how to test all the various components. If all the components test ok, then it's likely to be a broken wire somewhere.
In the test procedures it tells how to check components at the component, but after you have doe that test, it's always a good idea to repeat the test at the far end of the wires the component connects to. So for instance, the test for the stator/alt is a resistance test with an ohm meter done down at the engine connector, but if the staror checks ok, ie it has continuity, then you need to reconnect it to the wiring, and go to the cdi unit and do the same continuity test right back through the wiring to the stator/alt. If the wiring is good, the continuity readings will be the same as they were down at the engine connector.
Thank you for the education I already knew. first off if you read...correctly ...I did NOT tie off the wires as in together...I kept them separate and tied off AWAY from each other- not touching each other.(because that is how this one is wired up, it's not a Cub Cadet zero turn) But if one where to read too fast what I wrote they would miss all as you did. Second..I'm aware of what ALL the wires do....but if you read slower...you would find my question was what is the color wires of the pulse wire OEM and what is the color wire of the AC wire OEM that come from the stator area. I already have the picture of the Aftermarket CDI box as to what their color wires are for, the seller...the only one seller was nice enough to provide that. However the seller does not know what color code the OEM set up is. It floors me that there is not one diagram in the 300 plus pictures that I looked at. Yet I found a color wire chart for the MG car I fixed...famous awful Lucus wiring!. ok, so moving forward. It's very apparent that you ---nor I know what the OEM color code of what wire is what. That leads to your Ohm meter suggestion. I was hoping for a more detailed test procedure. My only interest is the two wires one--that is the "pluse" and other the AC. I was thinking that while I crank the starter, one wire should show continuous Ohm reading while being cranked...that one would be the AC(as the seller of his CDI calls it) and the other wire that is "pluse" would only provide an Ohm reading about every full revolution of it turning over. provided of course that the stator is still in working order. Yes, I should download a manual..as I've done for millions of projects for years.....but...if I can't find one provided...then that is an issue. perhaps someone has found one and can provide a link. and NO! I'm not going to pay for a download manual, I've played that game in the past and they have sent me manuals that did not help one bit....no refund on the money either. it baffles me how I can find a link with awesome wire diagram for a MG car...but yet a kids Yamaha joy ride...it's like it does not exist??
 

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Ha.. I didn't misread or assume anything.. I suggested that the wires might need connecting.. or not.

I think that you need some more education, in manners, and in electrical theory. You should have a read up on ohms,.. they aren't what you think.

Educate yourself about volts, amps and ohms and their relationship to oneother, then we can discuss it.
 

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Thank you for the education I already knew. first off if you read...correctly ...I did NOT tie off the wires as in together...I kept them separate and tied off AWAY from each other- not touching each other.(because that is how this one is wired up, it's not a Cub Cadet zero turn) But if one where to read too fast what I wrote they would miss all as you did. Second..I'm aware of what ALL the wires do....but if you read slower...you would find my question was what is the color wires of the pulse wire OEM and what is the color wire of the AC wire OEM that come from the stator area. I already have the picture of the Aftermarket CDI box as to what their color wires are for, the seller...the only one seller was nice enough to provide that. However the seller does not know what color code the OEM set up is. It floors me that there is not one diagram in the 300 plus pictures that I looked at. Yet I found a color wire chart for the MG car I fixed...famous awful Lucus wiring!. ok, so moving forward. It's very apparent that you ---nor I know what the OEM color code of what wire is what. That leads to your Ohm meter suggestion. I was hoping for a more detailed test procedure. My only interest is the two wires one--that is the "pluse" and other the AC. I was thinking that while I crank the starter, one wire should show continuous Ohm reading while being cranked...that one would be the AC(as the seller of his CDI calls it) and the other wire that is "pluse" would only provide an Ohm reading about every full revolution of it turning over. provided of course that the stator is still in working order. Yes, I should download a manual..as I've done for millions of projects for years.....but...if I can't find one provided...then that is an issue. perhaps someone has found one and can provide a link. and NO! I'm not going to pay for a download manual, I've played that game in the past and they have sent me manuals that did not help one bit....no refund on the money either. it baffles me how I can find a link with awesome wire diagram for a MG car...but yet a kids Yamaha joy ride...it's like it does not exist??
Mech is right on the money! Generally speaking, the answer to your question is.....the pulse wire is in many, but, not all cases blue.

I would not try testing for resistance on the stator or pulse coil while cranking engine unless you want to destroy your meter sir.

My suggestion for success in your case would be to remove the cover and physically look at the stator and pulse.

Next, follow the recommendations from Mech, and maybe, just maybe he will help with follow-up testing procedures. I can assure you, he has a wealth of knowledge and would be a great asset to your troubleshooting adventure.
 

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Orange-HT coil
Black: Ground
Red/white: Pulse
Black/Red:Charge
Black/White: Kill

This is an example:
ya see, the color of wiring is deceptive. Components could've been changed.

Best bet, test resistance with components disconnected. (Static)
Physically trace wires to their origin.
Follow up with dynamic testing.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Ha.. I didn't misread or assume anything.. I suggested that the wires might need connecting.. or not.

I think that you need some more education, in manners, and in electrical theory. You should have a read up on ohms,.. they aren't what you think.

Educate yourself about volts, amps and ohms and their relationship to oneother, then we can discuss it.
Thank you.... found someone else who's willing to take the time to help with "education" it is normally gotten from individuals who are willing to share such as myself. It's what I do on other forums, if a topic comes up that I'm very knowledgeable about....I share what I know...but I don't ever act as a know it all.....learning happens every day...even if you have done it a million times. best regards...I think you could lighten up in your manners.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Mech is right on the money! Generally speaking, the answer to your question is.....the pulse wire is in many, but, not all cases blue.

I would not try testing for resistance on the stator or pulse coil while cranking engine unless you want to destroy your meter sir.

My suggestion for success in your case would be to remove the cover and physically look at the stator and pulse.

Next, follow the recommendations from Mech, and maybe, just maybe he will help with follow-up testing procedures. I can assure you, he has a wealth of knowledge and would be a great asset to your troubleshooting adventure.
Yes, thank you Scooter. I was able to learn in my intense investigating that some are with and some are without the pulse wire. Before I ordered the part, I needed to get that figured out. The set up I'm dealing with here...has the pulse...moving forward...Yes again! I agree on removing the case...but I am reluctant...due to the screws are very corroded ... a project years ago with a moped they broke...grrr..and I did spray them then too. but as the years have gone by, I've got some awesome tricks to how to remove (stubborn)bolts, screws, nuts, even have made a homemade tool that has done wonders. As we speak...I do have some Kroil working into these screws...if it gets where it needs to be. I've tried PB blaster and many other products, found on Alum...that Kroil has been a big help...the better one to use... so as we speak those screws are being soaked, as I have a feeling I may have to go in there due to more issues.
Moving forward.... I was doing some more searching on finding a color chart of the wires and what they go to. With the internet as an awesome tool....I'm amazed I can't find it yet. I must just not be in the right spot yet.
 

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Once you can physically see and trace the wires, it will shed light on the problem. If at that point, you're still having issues, post a few photos and maybe we can provide some ideas.

Remember, static resistance testing is only a good indicator of a circuits ability to carry current. Even then, you will require specific tolerances. Maybe call the local Yamaha dealer and they could provide you with some information if you haven't found the service manual.
I generally keep a spare pulse coil on the shelf as well as a CDI. Peak to peak testing can provide less then desirable results when testing CDI with a dvom. Therefore, a process of elimination is the preferred method.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Orange-HT coil
Black: Ground
Red/white: Pulse
Black/Red:Charge
Black/White: Kill

This is an example:
ya see, the color of wiring is deceptive. Components could've been changed.

Best bet, test resistance with components disconnected. (Static)
Physically trace wires to their origin.
Follow up with dynamic testing.
You are right again! I can't begin to mention all the projects that get thrown my way...and it's because so many "hands" have been in the pie.... then as peoples last resort...I've been chosen to tackle it....It's why I dig and dig and look for clues.
On this project, Thankfully none of the components have been changed. Many clues confirm this. However, sadly Yama'...has stopped making parts for many of their toys...and we are pushed into aftermarket....and of course they will not make it with the same plug in and go as Yama' has. Even the plug in connectors are of total different in shape....wires are different colors and the such. I'm again with U on one big thing...."Physically trace wires to their origin"...but as I explained in the other reply...the cover is yelling...do not remove me unless must....cuz you gonna be drillin' out broken bolts/Screws...so that makes me trying the other route. I hate working backwards..but...sometimes doing so has prevented going into a nightmare at the beginning.
Actually your color chart of the wires above is not too far off from what I found...Yes Orange is the coil as for Yama' but the aftermarket used yellow from the coil but orange from the CDI box...Black solid IS the ground both in Yama' and aftermarket...The black /white from the 2 wire connector IS the kill on the yama but the aftermarket plays with an extra stripe in one of the wires, but due to it's in the two wire connector...it's simple to figure out. But then we have this 3 wire connector...from the stator area....black for both Yama' and Aftermarket is saying ground. so then that leaves them pulse and charge wires...two left...Due to I'm not in front of the ATV right now...I can't tell you if the colors you mention for the pulse and charge come close....they sure and hell don't with the aftermarket....but luck have it...the seller mentioned what one goes to what. uhh, I was just trying to find the picture the aftermarket guy provided...to throw it up here just for kicks... Anyhow, thanks Scooter....
Font Parallel Electric blue Slope Brand
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Click link, diagram second link down on left side. Not the greatest, but, may provide some guidance.
Hey, I'll give your search words that U used a try....perhaps mine was not exact enough? This was where I was clicking on each image and was not finding .....as of yet...the close up of the color OEM wires...but....let me try your "search" link here
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
OK, it's light outside now......Green and White and Red and white are the two remaining wires on the 3 prong...coming from stator direction. so....black and red as Scooter mentioned "could be" the "pluse" wires....but ...the green and white...vs the black and red mentioned by Scooter could be the "charge" wires...well, as Scooter said...this is where things could be different if someone has been involved between factory and myself......... now lookin' at this thing. more to investigate here...but long before I came here, I was reading alot of comments on the internet on this topic, I thought one was interesting...the guy replaced the HT coil...the CDI and the stator-pluse components...and still had a spark problem...then as soon as he replaced the rectifier/regulator for the charging system.....All worked good as new...?? Only difference was it was a bike vs the atv.(if I remember right). still looking through Scooters "search" link...see alot of what I already saw...but still looking to see if I can catch an image of some sort that might help....sprayed some more Kroil on the screws---again----...I've found "walking away" from projects to be a good thing, let it soak......more time for thinking and digging.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Poor quality, but, ya may see something that could be helpful
Well...what is interesting...and it's not a Moto 4 "80"...is the wire colors are spot on to what I see on mine! However...they do not tell what one is "pulse" or "charge"...so the cool clue would be to figure is it the G/W or the R/W on this OEM pulse or charge...then presto...I can hook it up to my aftermarket and pray...lol
 
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